Most Important Message Of The Weekend
Tom Shrader begins this marriage conference by establishing the gospel foundation, sharing his personal testimony of coming to faith in Christ and emphasizing that Jesus is the only way to salvation. He refutes the cultural lies that all religions lead to the same God and that sincerity alone matters, insisting that Christianity is a belief system centered on Christ's atoning work, not merely good behavior or religious devotion.
“My problem wasn't a job or a house or circumstances. My problem was sin.”
— Tom Shrader
Series: Marriage (2002)
Recorded: 2002 at Cannon Beach Conference Center
Duration: 50 min
Themes: salvation, marriage, testimony, gospel, faith, truth, foundation, relationship, married couples, marriage conference attendees, new believers, questioning salvation, interfaith relationships, husband, wife, struggling with truth claims
Scripture: John 14:6, Romans 3:23, Romans 6:23, John 14:5
Theological Themes: soteriology, salvation by grace, exclusive claims, christian apologetics, personal testimony, conversion experience, gospel foundation, biblical marriage
Full Transcript
Chris, thank you. Well, good evening, how are you tonight? We don't know yet—we'll find out. It's good to be with you. My name is Tom Schrader and I am from the Phoenix area as Jeff mentioned, so you got a little dose of that from Cottonwood and Phoenix, and we are glad to be here.
My wife Susan is with me and Susan is sitting back in the back. Stand up Susan so they can see you. Just tell her how nice she looks tonight. Doesn't she look nice tonight? We had a long discussion about what she was wearing, so we were trying to figure all that out. We're no different than you—we're figuring this out as we go too, but she does look terrific.
We have been married almost 25 years, which is a nice way of saying we've been married 24 years. It's interesting to be in an environment where we come and we speak to different groups, or I have a chance to speak to different groups, and oftentimes talk about a variety of things. But this is targeted toward couples, and the nature of this weekend is actually hard coming in.
My Ministry Background
The majority of my time is spent in two areas back in Phoenix. We have a ministry to the marketplace called Priority Living. We've been doing that since 1991, so what is that—almost 12 years, I guess. It's targeted three times a week: I go into the business world. I speak one morning in a restaurant, one morning in a bar, and then another morning and another afternoon in a church. God has been very gracious to us to allow us to do that. It's just a fabulous opportunity.
But by far the joy of my life is the church. Susan and I were talking today, and if you take away family—and by that I mean Susan and the girls and immediate family—without a shadow of a doubt the most significant part of my life is the church. I love the local church. I am a huge fan of the local church, and it frankly saddens me to see the condition of some churches today. So we rejoice that we can be part of the local church.
The Challenge of Speaking to Diverse Couples
What makes a weekend like this difficult is I don't know hardly any of you, and I have no idea what you're going through or where you've been or what you're thinking about. Obviously, if you come as couples, you are in different stages of marriage.
Let me just ask you this: How many of you have been to Cannon Beach to the conference center before for a conference? Let's see your hands. So gosh, the majority of you. Here's a bad question: How many of you were here when we were here two years ago? Well, we're sure glad you're back. It's really good to see you. This may sound remotely familiar to you. I met at least a couple that was here. There were a couple of couples that were here for the 4th of July this summer, so we're glad to see you.
How many of you have kids? Yeah, good. Grandkids? Yeah. How long has anybody here been married less than five years? I wouldn't have picked you out of the crowd that way. I'm walking along, I'm in a store not long ago. There's this little couple in there. They're cute little old couple, and they're cute and they're hugging and holding hands. I think that is so sweet—married all these years. I said, "That is so sweet. I hope we're like that." So I started talking to them and I said, "How long you guys been married?" And they said, "A month." That's why they were still holding hands. I should have known they were still talking.
So you've been married less than five years? I saw you over here. How long have you been married? Yeah, two and a half years. Then I'm going to guess when we go to the other end we got people who have been married 20 years, 30 years, 40 years, 50 years. How long you guys been married? 56 years? Longer than that?
Understanding Different Marriage Stages
Whenever you get into a room like this, you got all those dynamics going on, and that makes it a little bit of a challenge. So what I want to do is talk about marriage, and we're going to talk about marriage. We're going to talk about kids. We're going to talk a little bit about grandkids maybe, because the stuff will apply to them.
I also understand, having done a lot of conferences—marriage conferences, all kinds of conferences, men's retreats—I also understand that on the day of arrival like today, this is a hard day. Many of you have driven hours to be here. It's a long day for you. There are people here who I guarantee you who did not necessarily come with a group, but they came on their own. And as they were leaving they were wondering why they were going. "Can we get our refund because we're not..." I mean, I just know that's the reality of it.
I know that as you were driving out, you were having conversations, heads going up and down. "This is great." I just know that that's how it is. And I also know that there are some of you who in your relationships are doing terrific and things are very good. Really this is just a chance to get away. I'm kind of an inconvenience—I'm a break between the food and the ocean for you. And I understand that. I'm okay with that too. You're kind of my break between food and the ocean, too, so you need to know.
There's some of you that are doing pretty well, and there's some of you who—it's very hard to detect, but maybe you're struggling a little bit. Maybe getting here was kind of even maybe a last straw. Maybe you got a flyer in the mail and thought, "Let's try this." And I understand that. I am glad to have the opportunity to speak to all of you, and my prayer is that God will use this time to make those great marriages even better and those good marriages great marriages, and those marriages that are okay to let you experience what God has for you.
Susan and I came in last night and we drove over, and it was raining. I'm not a big rain guy. It was raining and it was foggy, and it's kind of nice, I guess. It's a difference. It would be hard to have it every day. It would be hard to have it twice a month, really. We navigated our way over, and you all can drive in this—these trucks are just...
I really do like it here. We were here for the 4th of July. Have any of you ever been here on the 4th of July? Just a few of you? Let me make a pitch right now for Cannon Beach Conference Center on the 4th of July. It was one of the greatest times we ever had at this place on the 4th of July. The Conference Center and the city - you cannot do it. It would be a great place to bring your families for a little family reunion. It is terrific.
They have a parade and virtually everybody in the town is in the parade. My favorite float this year was a gal with a wiener dog. She took a French roll, cut it in half, and taped it around the dog. It was great. I came in that night and said, "All right, what was the best float in the parade?" and everybody said the wiener dog. The fireworks are kind of jungle warfare fireworks. There's no rules or regulation and no formal fireworks. People are just shooting these things off down on the beach. Susan and I had a great time. I really encourage you to grab the calendar for next year, sign up, and come up here for the 4th of July. It was great.
A Wedding on the Beach
I was walking down the beach this afternoon. We got back and Susan said, "I'm going to get ready," and I said, "I'm going to walk down the beach." I walked down to the haystack rock. They were doing a wedding down there. Some of you were down there because I saw some of you walking on the beach. I couldn't figure out what it was. There were all these people and I thought maybe they're making a movie - The Goonies Part 80 or something.
So I walked down with all these people and I said, "You know what? It's got to be a wedding." There was this huge staircase. All of a sudden down came these guys in their tuxes, then these bridesmaids, and the bride. I had a great angle because the bride was up on the porch. She was jumping - I think she was a little cold. She's up there jumping around and I thought, "What a brave woman, she's going to come down those stairs." Her mom and dad greeted her at the bottom of the stairs and walked her out there.
I had on shorts and I wasn't invited, but I really wanted to go. I couldn't get close enough to really hear, but they were smiling, they were laughing, there was cheering. I was standing there and there was a couple standing there. I thought I don't know them, so I said, "Isn't this incredible?" The gal said, "Yeah, that's really good." The guy was acting weird and I said, "Listen, this is great." She said, "It's really beautiful." It was driving me nuts the way this guy was acting.
So I said, "Well, are you guys married?" "No, no, we're not." You could see it. I said, "Well boy, is this part of your future? Do you think this is where it's headed?" They just looked at each other. I said, "I gotta go. I can't stick around."
Total Strangers Celebrating Love
It's funny - there were people there who were total strangers, and I don't believe they were part of the wedding. They were up in the condos and houses and were obviously visitors, and they were taking pictures because it was just such a striking scene. I want you just for a second to realize that's pretty much the occasion of every wedding. Obviously circumstances are different. Susan and I were married in the worst possible place on the planet - Pueblo, Colorado. I mean it was just awful. You're probably from Pueblo, but I don't mean to offend you, but it is just an awful place. We happened to be there - God just had us there for a short time, but way too long for me.
But remember back to your wedding. There's the smiling and there's laughter and there's cheering. I'm guessing virtually every wedding starts with some variation of that. I would imagine neither one of those couples is saying, "Well, we'll give this a shot, but if it doesn't work out..." I don't think that's the way it goes.
Yet we know that 40, 50 - we differ on the numbers - half, let's say half of these marriages end in divorce. I don't know what you do for a living, but if you're in manufacturing and half the products you put out don't work, you're not going to be in business very long.
I just want you to remember that enthusiasm you had that day. My sense is that though I know it grows different over time, and it's bound to, the difference ought to be better. It's different, but it ought to be better.
Radar for Thoughts
I was driving the other day. We have a road in Phoenix called Lincoln Road. On Lincoln Road it's notorious for photo radar. I mean they police this thing. When I hit Lincoln and it says 40, I'm 39. I'm coming up at 6:13 in the morning and sure enough, I said, "You know that guy sits up here a lot." I come right up, get right by him, and there he is with his radar gun. It's no problem for me because it's Lincoln Road. Now, it's a good thing he's not down on Camelback - that would be an issue. But he's on Lincoln.
Wouldn't it be great to have a radar gun where you could shoot it at somebody, pull it, and see what they're thinking, not how fast they're going? I was thinking of that today at that wedding because I'll bet even though those people are standing around, I'll bet you could go "boom" and you'd see some of these people who are really excited for it and really happy about it. I'll bet you could go like this - boom.
A Warning About Marriage Statistics
You might see some cynics. You might see some ladies thinking you just got your last flower and card, baby. No more notes on the windshield. Or some guys thinking you're on your way to Jack-in-the-Box for the first time since we're done eating.
I know we talked about epidemics, but all kidding aside, you have to say marriages are in a catastrophic situation when they fail the way they do. Yet what is amazing to me, there's a huge lie that the people in the church - and by that they would mean Christians - have the same divorce rate as the rest of the world. I simply don't believe that. I know that's what the statistics say, but I don't believe it.
I think you have to read carefully, and what they'll say is there are as many church people who get divorced as there are non-churched people. What's the flaw in that? Not everybody in church is a Christian. There's the problem right there.
The Most Important Message
I want to talk to you, and we will, about parenting and all this other stuff. But the most important thing that I can do for you this weekend is make certain that you understand what it means to be a Christian and that indeed, you know the gospel well enough to reject it if that's your choice.
There is an assumption that's made when we drive up and see Cana Beach Christian Conference Center that everybody here is a Christian. I have long since gotten past that myth. Now probably most of you are, but I just want to share my story with you. I want to make sure you understand the gospel, and then we will begin tomorrow morning working our way through the marriage stuff.
Life in Iowa
I was born and raised in Davenport, Iowa, and I lived there. I've actually lived 26 years in Iowa and 26 years in Phoenix now, so I lived half my life there. My family's there. Iowa is a great place, but not great enough to stay once you can get out because it's great people. It's got some great stuff in it. It will always be home to me, but I got out of there in 1975.
Makes it sound like prison, doesn't it? I got out in '75 when I left Iowa and went down to Phoenix. A friend of mine was moving down. He said he's moving to Scottsdale. I'd never heard of Scottsdale. I had heard - I was listening to a Cubs game and they were saying that it was 70 degrees in Scottsdale, and we had not seen the sun for like a month. My buddy said he's moving to Phoenix and I said, "Scottsdale, Phoenix?" He said yeah, and I said, "Why don't I come move with you?" So I'd never heard of it, didn't have a job, nothing.
The Journey to Phoenix
We got there - funny story - we got out there, got up and woke up. We drove all night. We drove the first night to somewhere in Kansas, then Dalhart, Texas, and then Flagstaff. We wake up the next morning and we're in Flagstaff, and here is this mountain. I'd never seen a mountain and I'm thinking, "This is incredible. Look how green it is. This is beautiful."
Well, there's a little difference between Flagstaff and Phoenix. As we kept driving I said, "Gee, it's getting brown. Gee, there's no grass. Gee, there's no trees." Well, at least the sun's shining. We went over Bell Road. We got to a sign that said "Welcome to Scottsdale" - this is an absolutely true story - the minute I saw that sign, the sky opened up and I saw the hardest rain I'd ever seen in my entire life. And I thought, "What did I leave my mom for? What am I going to do?"
Working at Motorola
I came to Phoenix and my desire was - I had a little bit of money - was to play golf and party until my money was gone. It ran out. I got a job. I was working at Motorola. You all know Motorola from different areas. In that day, Motorola - you could not buy a product like at a store; you had to buy products from Motorola.
I sold car phones. Let me explain to you why America is great. This one illustration will do it. When I sold car phones, a car phone cost $3,300. You would wait a year or two to get one, and then you'd pay two dollars for the first minute and a dollar for every minute afterwards. Now they'll give you the phone and you can get unlimited calls around the country for five cents a minute. That's what happens with free market capitalism. That's not what we're talking about tonight, but that's what makes this place work. And when you get rid of that, you got issues.
A Dangerous Night
I'm at Motorola and I'm moving along and I'm doing all right. I've got a personal - I'm not a Christian. I'm raised in a home - I was raised Catholic: Catholic grade school, high school, college. I like to drink. I like gin and scotch periodically.
One night I'm driving home from work. In fact, this is kind of something I did. I didn't think - I was not - I was a little sick in the old days. I didn't think I was getting enough appreciation at work, so I sponsored Tom Schrader Appreciation Day. It was quite a success. So at the end of the week I had this closed, and I was wearing yellow pants and a blue shirt - that's very important to remember.
We went to this Black Angus place where we always went and we were drinking happy hour at Black Angus - great Black Angus happy hour. We're driving home and I'd been drinking all day. All of a sudden I see these lights in the back and I pull over to let the emergency vehicle by. The vehicle comes over with me.
In Jail
This officer gets out and has me do stuff that I frankly - it's not fair because I can't do it sober. I don't know how you do this, but they took me in and they put me in jail. They put me in the drunk tank, and it was early in the night - like 7:40, 7:45 - early by drunk standards.
When I heard this ruckus outside, all of a sudden in came these bikers. Well, you might not read this in all your magazines, but bikers have a thing for guys in yellow pants. You got to remember that. So I'm saying, "Help! Help!" So I get out and I go - I'm not one of these guys. One good thing about me, even in those days when it was at a really low point, I was...
The Truth About My Past
One night in a bar—this is a true story—when a guy said to me, "Tom, you've got value," because I was feeling pretty worthless. He said, "You've got value." I said, "Really?" He said, "Yes. You can always be used as a bad example." That's what he said. He said, "I do it all the time. I say to my wife, 'I'm not as bad as Tom.'" Good to have a reputation.
So I knew I had problems. I remember going before the judge, and because everybody gets an attorney for this, I said, "I don't need an attorney. I'm guilty." It seems to me if you're guilty, you ought to be found guilty. So they had the arresting officer, and they said, "Describe the defendant." Here was the phrase they used—it stuck in my mind because I kind of liked it: "He was cocky but cooperative." So I said I was guilty and I had to go to some class or something.
Meeting Susan
About this time I lived in apartment 202. Apartment 201 was vacant, and one Saturday—as I remember it was a Saturday—these two girls were moving into apartment 201. This one was carrying up something. I couldn't see her face because she had something over it, but she had this cute little body. Then she came back out and I saw her face. I said, "Wow Jesus, she's incredible. This will be great. My new neighbor. I'm going to bake some cookies or something and take them over and welcome her to the neighborhood or something."
But I didn't do that. I finally ultimately went up—and I'm not going to tell you how because it's even embarrassing for me how this happened—and started to speak with her. I finally convinced her to go out. We went out to a Christmas party and I was drunk again. When I dropped her off, she said, "I don't want to ever see you again. Never."
Well, I'd been told that by so many girls, I just figured she was coming on to me. I didn't know that she meant that. I called her and she said, "No, leave me alone." So I started calling her at work every day because I figured she had to be nice to me. Finally, after about three months literally of her saying no, I called one day and said, "If I don't call you for two weeks, will you go out with me again?" And she said yes. Thirteen days later I called. I said, "I can't wait another day. Will you go out with me?" And she said, "I will go out with you if you promise me you'll never call me again." I said, "Alright."
Our Wedding Day
So I went to pick her up. There was a doorbell. I rang the doorbell. She opened the door and she said to me, "The only reason I'm going out with you is because you promised me you'd never call me again if I go out with you. Give me your word." I said, "I'll give you my word. Sure. There's my word." We went out, and to make a long story short, Susan and I have been together every day since. I turned on the old charm that night.
I remember the day in Pueblo, Colorado, standing right here, and she came walking down that aisle. My heart was just beating a thousand miles an hour. She came up and we walked up, and this guy said, "Will you take Susan to be your wife?" I said, "I will." And he said, "Susan, will you take Tom to be your husband?" And I honestly remember holding my breath thinking, "I still think there's a 50-50 shot she'll say no on this." And she said yes, and I walked out of there and I was the happiest guy on this planet.
The Problem with My Expectations
Here's why this is very interesting. Somebody said most women marry men hoping they'll change and they don't, and most men marry women hoping they'll never change and they do. I may be the only guy in history, but I married Susan hoping she'd change me. I was so miserable, and she was so sweet and she was so kind. I used to say to her, "You live in a tree. What are you doing? You're living in a tree. Come down here with the rest of us. This is what planet? Your passport? How do you live up there?"
After a couple of months I began to see that Susan wasn't going to make me happy. In fact, I said to her one night, "You're not making me happy, and that's why I married you." She said, "Well, let me tell you something about yourself: you're not very happy." Here's what's key, and you need to understand this. I can tell you this after 24 years: Susan is everything you could ask for in a wife or a mother or a friend or a lover. In fact, I told her today—and I mean it—the last three or four months of our marriage have been the best we've ever had. We've never really had many problems except those early ones, but the last three or four months have been absolutely unbelievable. It just gets better. It literally gets better every day.
But here's the problem, and this is very important: I was asking Susan to do something only God could do. I was asking Susan to be my god, and as great as she is, she can't be God.
The Real Problem
See, here's what I thought. I thought I was just unhappy. I thought my problem was if I had a different job, if I had a different house, if I lived in a different city, if I could just change my circumstances, I'd be happy. Here's the issue, and it's the singular point for tonight: my problem wasn't a job or a house or circumstances. My problem was sin.
"All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23). Now I know how you think because I think that way. You tend to think you're the exception. That's how everybody thinks. "No jaywalking." Well, that's because most people don't know how to jaywalk. "I know how to jaywalk. They get killed doing it. I'll be alright." That's how we think. That's exactly how we think. "Well, I'm the exception to every rule."
No, the scripture is very clear. In fact, Paul could not be more clear. He says in Romans 3, "No one is good. No, not one. All sin, all fall short of the glory of God." "And the wages of sin is death," Paul says in Romans 6:23. Here's the key: "But the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus."
Susan and I have been married a while, and I went to a Bible study at Phoenix Country Club. There was a man speaking there by the name of Larry Wright. I walked in—Larry was an old rock-and-roll disc jockey, number one, controlled the Phoenix market for years. Lucky Lawrence.
I walked in and I sat down, and he began to teach. It was as though we were the only two people in the room. It was as though—and I knew it couldn't happen because Susan didn't know him—but it was like Susan had written down everything that he could possibly say to get me and given him the notes and said, "Go this way, say this."
Finding Larry Wright
I went back to my office. I got the phone book, and you can imagine if you look up Wright in the Phoenix phone book, there's a whole bunch of them. There's a whole bunch of Lawrence Wrights. Here's what's interesting: Larry's real name is Larry, and there was a Larry Wright. I called Larry Wright. I said, "Were you the Bible study guy today?" He said, "Yeah." I said, "Well, I was there today for the very first time, and I thought what you said was pretty interesting. I don't think I buy it, but I thought it was interesting. I'd like to meet with you."
We met, and I asked him difficult questions. Like, "Do you believe in Adam and Eve? You believe in Noah's flood? Believe this Bible's true?" He kept saying yes, yes, yes. The next day, by myself in my car, I cried—literally cried out to God. "God, I'm a sinner. I'm lost in this sin. I'm hopeless. I've had this life for 30 years, and I've screwed it up every way you can. God, you take this life. I accept your Son Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. I understand that religion is never going to get me to heaven." That's about all I knew at that moment.
I came in the next day into the Bible study, and Larry was there. I walked up and said, "Larry, yesterday I accepted Jesus." You know what he did? He hugged me. I thought, "My word, what have I gotten myself into? We're hugging? I want a bunch of hugging? Now we're hugging?"
Jesus Is the Way
Here's what Jesus said the night before He died. Jesus was with the disciples in John chapter 14, and Jesus said this knowing what was going to happen: "Do not be troubled. You trusted God; trust in me. There's many rooms in my Father's home, and I'm going to prepare a place for you. If it were not so, I'd tell you plainly. When everything is ready, I will come and get you, so that you will always be where I am. You know where I'm going, and you know how to get there."
I love this: Thomas says in John 14:5, "We don't have a clue. We don't have the foggiest idea what you're talking about. We don't know the way." Jesus says, "I am the way and the truth and the life."
I was trained by the nuns, and they were sticklers for these things that I thought, "Geez, we'll never use." But they taught us about a definite article, and they said when you have a definite article like the word "the"—like "the way"—what it does is eliminate any other way. Jesus doesn't say, "I am a way." He said, "I'm the way. There's no other way. I am the truth. There's no other truth. I am the life. There's no other life." In case you missed it, He comes back and says, "No one can come to the Father except through me."
The Costco Test
I belabor this point because you and I live at a time when that's just not the accepted truth anymore. We were at Costco today in Warrenton—I think that was the name of the town, Warrenton Costco. It's become a tradition for us when we come to Cannon Beach. Some people eat that crack cereal; we go to Costco.
Here's what I like about Costco, and those of you that like to understand what's going on in America, here's what you need to do: go to Costco. Because if it's not selling, Costco doesn't keep it. Costco doesn't jack around. When you go into Costco and you go into pants or shirts or you go into CDs or movies, the only reason that there's 500 of them there is because if there's 400 of them the next day, they're gone. They don't jack around.
Here's what's important: when you go to Costco, go to the book section because they only have books that people are buying. I'm there today. Here's this book, the title: "The New Revelation," subtitle: "A Conversation with God." This is the guy that wrote that book "A Conversation with God" a few years ago. This is the new one. I'm torn because I kind of want to buy the book so I can quote it, but I don't want to give this jerk any money. So I said to Susan, "Have you got something to write on? Because I'm going to write this down."
Here's what it says on the flap: "A conversation with God that began as a simple plea from one human being to the God of his understanding." Right next to it is an NIV Study Bible, because you see, Costco isn't in the theology—they're into the cash, which is what made America great, and I'm fine with that. So NIV Study Bible sells; "New Revelation: Conversation with God" sells.
Two Deadly Lies
There are two deadly lies I'm going to take maybe five minutes or so—because I know you've had a long day—and let me just close with them. There are two deadly lies that have been embraced by our culture. What troubles me is they are seeping their way into the heart of the way people think, including church people.
Here's the first lie: that all religions worship the same God. When I'm at Costco today, I couldn't resist—I wouldn't buy that trash—but Charles Barkley's new book is out. You've got to look; there's no way you can see it, but it's just Charles being Charles, and the title is "I May Be Wrong, But I Doubt It."
Charles, you've got to love Charles. When Charles was in Phoenix, literally every day when Charles played for the Suns, literally every day there'd be a little quote of the day from Charles. There were a billion of them, and there are some you could never say here. But my favorite was where they were asking him because he went to Auburn, and they were asking about school: "Was school hard?" He said, "Well, it wasn't that hard," and they said, "What was—"
your favorite course? And he said music appreciation. And they said was that hard and he said not really, they put me in a room, a girl came in and played the piano, I said I really appreciate that, and they gave me an A.
So Charles in here is talking about everything under the Sun. I mean he's talking about—I was going to read you some of the chapter titles, but it doesn't even matter. Here's the one—let me see if I get the title: "God doesn't have a favorite team." Charles was talking about religion and sports and how people are trying to pray and all this stuff for a game.
Here's what he writes. He said this: "I just don't think it's fair that people assume they can determine the actions of others because of religion. Kevin Johnson, my teammate at Phoenix, is really religious. Before one of the game sevens of the playoff series we played during my time with the Suns, he and a couple other guys talked the whole team into going into a prayer meeting, but I told him no, I'm not going. I said number one, God doesn't have a favorite team. Number two, doesn't it seem like we're praying to God to win us a game when He must have more important things to worry about than this basketball game? I hope and pray God has more important things in His mind. I can't believe with all the serious stuff going on today—world terrorism, war, hunger, poverty, violence"—and then he goes on.
Here's what he says: "How come it's often the most religious people who seem to forget the verse in the Bible"—now Charles is unclear what that verse might be—"the verse in the Bible which says that only God can judge men." I was reading something Lee Trevino said: that unless you're a minister, preacher, a rabbi, you should never be pushing your religious beliefs on people. "That's pretty much the way I feel. Religion to me is your individual relationship with God"—see if this sounds familiar to what we just read—"or whatever you call your supreme being. That's it, plain and simple."
"My belief is that there's a supreme being. I don't get into whether He's black or white or man or woman. I'm just not going to walk around and talk about God all the time like a lot of players. I don't think that proves how religious anybody is. A whole lot of people never talk openly about their religion. You don't even know what, if any, religion or God they believe in, but they treat people the way they would like folks to treat them. I know a lot of people don't want to accept that, or they want organized religion to be involved in everything. But to me"—this is now Charles on God—"to me, religion opens up the biggest can of worms. I just try to keep it away from sports because the bottom line is God doesn't have a favorite team."
The Deadly Lie of Religious Pluralism
See, that's exactly what the conversation with God is saying. I'm at a prayer breakfast one day and the speaker, a sports guy, gets up and says here's what religion's like: "It's like when I'm in New York and I want to get to Atlanta. I can take Delta. I can take American. I can take US Air. I can take United. It doesn't matter. Every one of them is going to get me from New York to Atlanta, and that's the way it is with God. It doesn't matter what you believe about Him or what religion you take. It's all going to take you to God."
Men and women, that lie has permeated the culture. It does matter. Listen, if you're praying to a God who doesn't have a Son, Jesus Christ, who came to the earth and died on the cross and rose from the grave so that in that death He might atone for the sin of His people—if your God doesn't have that Son, then you're praying to a false God. Whether it's a Hindu or a Buddhist, it doesn't matter. It is absolutely critical that we don't give an inch on this. This lie is deadly.
But it's really deadly when you couple it with the second lie, and that is it doesn't matter what you believe, only that you are—what is it? Say it—sincere. That's the lie, and they permeate the world and they have drifted into the church.
The Difference Between Subjective and Objective Truth
Now let me tell you something. When you say it doesn't matter what you believe, only that you are sincere, then what you're saying is it matters that you're devout. It doesn't matter if you are devout to the wrong God. God is an objective, not a subjective truth.
Let me show you the difference. If I say to you right now, "Is it hot or cold or just right in this room?" some of the women will say cold, most of the men will say hot, some poor souls will say just right. I don't know, I think it's warm. I'm warm. Who's right? Well, you're all right. It's a subjective truth.
But if I say to you God is holy and just and pure, involved in the intimate details of life, and you say my God isn't, then I have to tell you you worship a false God.
The Courage of Conviction
I want to prove this point, and I know this could frustrate and anger some of you, but I want to shove this point right down here today. September 11, 2001. There were some courageous people on September 11: those firefighters, those policemen, many civilians. Those firefighters—look, they're running into a building where people are running out. That's courageous.
I'm going to say something here and listen to me. I believe the most courageous people on that day were the hijackers. You talk about courage. I cannot fathom sitting there on the control of that plane, running it into that building. Look, they had months to think about this. There's a courage there.
Now I got—last time I talked about this, man, I started getting letters and emails. So you don't know my email address and leave me alone. After Sunday, I'm never going to see again. It doesn't matter. But one guy wrote me a letter and here's what he said: "They weren't courageous, they were fanatics. They believed it by their actions. They were going to have them." And I wrote him back and said, "So the Christians that went into the lions' den in Rome—they weren't courageous because they were fanatics, because they believed they were going to heaven?" I said listen, you
These guys were courageous, and if you take the world view and bring it back to him, you got to say this. We're all the gods are the same, and were they sincere? How are you going to get more sincere than this? If you want to be consistent with the culture, you got to put these hijackers in heaven. You have to.
Now I don't think they're there because they were devout, they were religious, they were courageous, they were sincere, but they were sincerely wrong. See, that's what's missing. We don't say it anymore. It's not true. We got to use words like that. It's not true. It's false. It's wrong. That's so important.
The Object of Your Faith Matters
We see examples around us all the time. It's not just that you have faith. It's the object of your faith. The object of your faith has to be worthy of what you're trusting it to do.
Lots of people and guys who are very comfortable and flying and have all sorts of faith in aviation will get into a plane and they'll fly that plane right into the ground. Was faith the issue? Not at all. They stake their life on it. The problem was they were trusting that plane to do something it couldn't do.
I've seen people get on planes where they could barely get on. They had to take a pill to get on and something to get in and hope they'd sleep. They had no faith. But they got from point A to point B because the object of their faith could perform the task they were trusting it to do.
There is But One God
Listen, there is but one God. He has His son Jesus. Jesus came to this earth not to make you happy, but to make you whole. See the problem is you're a sinner, separated from God by your sin. And all of a sudden when now I understand who Jesus is and now I'm forgiven, all of a sudden my life begins to change.
We're going to talk about marriage and I got some stuff I think is good, but it may not be. I don't know. I think it is, hope it is. But you know, it doesn't matter how good it is because it isn't going to save you if you don't know Christ.
The Most Important Message
This is the most important. We got four sessions together. This is the most important session and we're not even talking about the topic they assigned to me. But this is the most important one. You can get all the other three right. You can have this great marriage. You can love each other, smile at each other. But if you don't get this right, you're going to hell.
And you know, the other thing is you're never going to have a life on this earth that's going to amount to anything. This is the key right here. So it's my prayer that if you're here tonight and in the course of this weekend, you don't know this truth, now you'll find that answer.
It may be, and I ask you to really think about this hard, it may be that you've been in church all your life and yet you're not a Christian. I've asked hundreds of people, "Are you a Christian?" This is and I've gotten all sorts of answers.
Are You a Christian?
I had a guy say to me, "I was born in Kansas and I drive a Chevy." I said, "Well that makes you a farmer, not a Christian."
This is my favorite. This is my favorite answer of all time, and no one will ever have a better answer than this. I said to this, where this thing, and I can sense he's not, he's a church guy, did a little singing, working Sunday school class. I said to him, "Are you a Christian?" Here's his answer. See if this isn't the greatest answer of all time. "Are you a Christian?" He said, "Not in the biblical sense."
And that's a great answer. He's a non-biblical Christian. Well, my question to you tonight is, my question to you tonight is, are you a Christian in the biblical sense? Because there is not any other way.
Christianity Is a Belief System
When we talk about it, and then we got to go, when we talk about Christianity, maybe that's really clear to you. We're not talking about loving your neighbor. We're not talking about doing kind deeds. We're not talking about actions. We're talking about doctrine. We're talking about faith. Now that doctrine will make you love your neighbor and all that goes with it.
But I get this all the time. "You know, he's a good Christian guy." What do you mean? "Well, he's nice." That's not what makes you a Christian. What makes you a Christian is you believe that you're a sinner and you believe Jesus is who He said He was and you accepted Christ in Christ alone for your salvation. That's what makes you a Christian.
Now we can talk about how a Christian acts. You get that distinction? You get that difference? We can talk about behavior all you want. But Christianity is a belief system first and then an ethic that flows from it. That's really an important distinction.
And it's not backwards. It's not "I believe this, I'll act good, I'll do the best I can." It's not about doing the best you can. The best you can is not good enough. It's trusting Christ in Christ alone.
Time to Get Your Questions Answered
If you've got any questions about this, this weekend is the place to get them answered. Maybe it's talking to a friend that brought you. It's talking to the staff here. Whatever it is, we're here to be part of you answering those questions.
We'll get together tomorrow morning when we do. We will tackle this topic of marriage.
Let's pray together. Father, thank You for Your son Jesus. We come and we look at our life. We look at all of the things that come before us, all the relationships, all the joy. But God, this life is absolutely empty apart from You.
Father, I pray tonight, especially for those that are here who really aren't sure whether they're Christians or not. They may be even able to point to a place in time where one day they walked an aisle, but it hasn't made any difference, so they're wondering. God, there are people here who maybe just openly would say, "I'm not."
I pray Father that Your Spirit would touch their heart this weekend. There's nothing we can say. It's not about us convincing them. It's about Your Spirit opening their eyes and giving them the grace to believe this truth. Father, thank You for people who have traveled long distances. Thank You for people who have spent money to be here this weekend because they want...
To be their motives may be different than what we had in mind, but they're here God. We pray that in this magnificent place with all of your beauty, with this service that's here to accommodate us, we pray that in the midst of this you would work in our hearts. For some it might be a time of salvation. For others it might put a stake in the ground and say yes, it's true - I am a Christian, I'm a follower of Jesus.
For some marriages that are hurting God, we pray that you would touch them, strengthen them. If they need healing you would heal those relationships. God, there would be a point where people would begin to look and to see the reality of your Spirit in their life. God, let us be a people who have love and joy and peace in our life through your Spirit.
God, we pray that in Jesus' name. Amen.